Aston Villa V Liverpool: 14th February at 14:05

Sandie wrote:Still, after our worst home defeat in over 80 years, Lescott says the players gave 100% and is tweeting pictures of his new £150,000 Mercedes.

Remi Garde disagreed with him. He was adamant that the players stopped trying after the second goal. Still I'm glad Lescott's happy with his new car.

Sandie wrote:Still, after our worst home defeat in over 80 years, Lescott says the players gave 100% and is tweeting pictures of his new £150,000 Mercedes.

Yes I saw that tweet and kindly pointed it out to the official feed, with a #StayClassy Hashtag. Bloody incensed me. Clearly aimed at a few that have perhaps given him grief, what about all the other fans though. What an arsehole. Everything that is wrong with the club. Will be well shot of him and his like come the summer. Another 'fan' just like Gabby.....

I think we have too many players who are in football for the trappings. The pretty girlfriends, £150,000 cars and the lifestyle. I'd say Gabby is exactly the same and I fear that Jack Grealish will go the same way. With that in mind, I'm not sure it should be a surprise that we can barely bother to defend a free-kick and gave up at 2-0. The sooner Aston Villa is purged of these parasites the better.

When the manager says that some of his players are not trying, then the team is finished. Those players on big wages will be the last to leave, so I can't see a way forward.

Apparantly Lescott sent that tweet by accident whilst his phone was in his pocket. He's stupider than he looks if he thinks that's believable.

Stan defending him, saying it's an isolated mistake from a decent pro. I guess a bit like the incident at Wycombe.

If I were Remi I wouldn't let the squad touch a football for the next fortnight. I'd have them running until they dropped, then I'd tell them on our next match day at Stoke that anyone who didn't give 100% for the team and their team mates, could look forward to another week of the same punishment before the Everton game.

They have to fear the consequences of coasting through matches.

Remi has to look at himself as well as questioning the players. Was he trying to play 4-4-1-1? If so why were we so narrow, where was the supply going to come from? One shot on target for us, Liverpool had eleven shots on target and scored with six of them!

Garde picked a team to defend and keep it tight while hoping to snatch a single goal out of nothing. When only three points will do, the team shape and tactics should reflect the need to take risks. There was no intention of it yesterday. I will accept a thrashing if we've genuinely throwing the kitchen sink at the opposition, in an attempt to secure three points. I won't accept a pathetic defensive shambles which has no hope of scoring a single goal, apart from the chance of a set piece header.

Either Remi Garde is now being defensive in case we get thrashed (as happened yesterday), or the players aren't carrying out his game plan. Yesterday's set up was only ever going to fail.

Think that is a tad harsh on Remi VB. He set us up with the same formation he has for weeks. Simple fact is the players never got out the blocks (for whatever reason) and then gave up totally at 0-2 down. He's come out and apologied for the mauling which is more than the players. If it's his limitations where by he can't motivate or engage with the players then he will be gone in the summer anyway. I just can't see it is his doing. You only have to see Lescott's post match actions to see the kind of character he's trying to deal with. Apparently/allegedly they mock him behind his back and mimic his accent. These guys on thousands of pounds a week. Disgraceful. I think formations and tactics are literally pointless at this juncture. The problems run so deep, it's unfixable with this set of players and whether he told them to attack attack attack or park the bus would yield the same outcome.

I don't think he's blameless, but equally I think many aren't playing for him (the clique of Richards, Gabby and Lescott is very powerful in the dressing room) and that says a lot more about them as professionals than it does Remi Garde. He's being implementing change with one hand tied behind his back and up until yesterday were 12th in the form table or 4th if you go off last 5 games. We were making progress. He highlights problems with Gabby midweek and lowenbehold the team don't play and gabby limps off.... Conspiracies conspiracies....haha!!

That aside, we're screwed now until the end of the season. When he gets a chance to see if the club will back his vision (I think he may well decide to leave now) and get a chance to clear out those that aren't up for the fight. I honestly picture a dressing room totally divided. The old English heads on one side and the young foreign legion cast aside. It's Houllier all over again. Collins and Dunne replaced by Richards and Lescott/Gabby.

We're down. We somehow need to start preparing for next year. If Garde believes there are individuals not pulling thier weight, time to drop them and work with others. He's in a tough position. I'm sure he'd love to drop Richards, Gabby and Lescott. Problem is does he ruin our youth before they've even had a chance to develop?! I'd personally want to keep them as far away from this car crash as possible. So that leaves us stuck with the same old crap each week. We're just treading water until it's mathematically confirmed now.

It's going to get worse before it gets better, buckle up.

You're spot on about our players and that clique, GM. It will need taking with a pinch of salt as it was one of those friend of a friend stories but I saw a story earlier that according privately to one of the players (one of the good ones which might narrow it down too much) only a couple of our players care and the rest seem to treat everything as one great big joke. You can very easily imagine that that is exactly how Lescott, Richards and Gabby see things. Frankly, the sooner they fuck off the better.

Sandie wrote:You're spot on about our players and that clique, GM. It will need taking with a pinch of salt as it was one of those friend of a friend stories but I saw a story earlier that according privately to one of the players (one of the good ones which might narrow it down too much) only a couple of our players care and the rest seem to treat everything as one great big joke. You can very easily imagine that that is exactly how Lescott, Richards and Gabby see things. Frankly, the sooner they fuck off the better.

Couldn't of put it better myself mate. What a mess.

I haven't got a clue about what's really happening behind the scenes and in the dressing room. If it's as you say GM, then I exempt Remi from criticism, because nothing he does or says will change things. If it is as bad as you're hearing then where are our management heavies, wading in to bang heads together. If I was involved in any capacity, the ring leaders would be held to account, given maximum fines and warned as to their contractual obligations to the club. Gabby, Lescott and Richards have little or no sell on value, so if their behaviour breaches their terms of contract they can be sacked, at a huge individual cost to each individual player.

This makes me think that the rumours about what's happening behind closed doors are exaggerated, because if they're not then Lerner should be rubbing his hands together (with wage saving glee) and getting the 'big boot' out.

villabromsgrove wrote:I haven't got a clue about what's really happening behind the scenes and in the dressing room. If it's as you say GM, then I exempt Remi from criticism, because nothing he does or says will change things. If it is as bad as you're hearing then where are our management heavies, wading in to bang heads together. If I was involved in any capacity, the ring leaders would be held to account, given maximum fines and warned as to their contractual obligations to the club. Gabby, Lescott and Richards have little or no sell on value, so if their behaviour breaches their terms of contract they can be sacked, at a huge individual cost to each individual player.

This makes me think that the rumours about what's happening behind closed doors are exaggerated, because if they're not then Lerner should be rubbing his hands together (with wage saving glee) and getting the 'big boot' out.

I'm not so sure it's that easy to just sack pro footballers, in any other profession it would be easy, but we've seen many many examples of outright scandulous behaviour, for the relevant club to do nothing. If the players aren't pulling their weight and just seeing the season out and not putting the effort in, can you really have grounds for termination of contract? I'm not so sure. From a HR background, I know in all mainstream industries you'd have to go down a performance management route and clearly document failings over a sustained period of time. We're talking about small margins here. At this level it only takes you being 15/20% off your game, or just not 'trying' as hard and you fall short and end up second to the opposition. So whilst it should be a simple case of Gross Misconduct, it's far more difficult to prove and actually do anything about it in the short term.

I don't think Randy is capable of banging any heads together (only his own against a brick wall it would seem) Garde up until the weekend has largely improved the side, whilst admitting in public difficulties with the club captain, you only have to read between the lines and see certain people just aren't pulling their weight on and off the pitch without there being anything exaggerated. It's there for all to see when they step over the white line to play. We had the incident a few weeks back with Guzan and Lescott, playing a game of 'spit the gum' whilst sat on the bench. These are just things we know of and see. Add that to all the stats where we're second best (or bottom of the table) and you get a clearer picture that this lot just aren't working hard enough. I think 3/4 players are really influential over the rest, Garde knows this and given we're trying to avoid relegation has tried to get the best out of the players at his disposal. He SHOULDN'T have to motivate any of these players. Their own pride should be enough to motivate themselves (that and big fat salaries) the fact they can't or he can't get them to respond (or Sherwood before) is damning.

Garde is not blameless by any stretch, he's been too cautious and initially took too long to get his head around the player's abilities and the best XI, however he's been badly let down by a bunch of players that are neither good enough and in some cases, don't give enough of a sh*t. No one at VP is capable of getting this lot to consistently perform and no amount of head banging, bollockings, throat grabbing will change that. We're done for and it's a case of getting to the summer and seeing what remains.

Will Garde still be here? Will he want to stay or the club want him? How and who will we ship out?! All questions for the summer, until then it's a case of damage limitation. You have a bunch of 'suits' a thrown together coaching team and a squad nowhere near good or professional enough. That equals relegation.

We need to rip up the blueprint and start again in the summer, as what we're doing now isn't working.

I was calm and happy until I started writing that and now I'm bloody pissed off, how dare they let us all down so badly. Bloody Shambles, THEY deserve relegation, WE do not....

You're right football is different to most jobs, but contractual obligations are similar. Breaches of discipline, unacceptable behaviour, refusal to carry out reasonable requests, should be dealt with by verbal warnings, verbal (recorded) warnings, written warnings, final written warnings, and then dismissal. Serious breaches of discipline allow the first three or even four stages of procedure to be bypassed. I get the feeling that no one at the club is solely in charge of internal discipline, which allows the players to get away with murder.

GadgetMan wrote:I don't think Randy is capable of banging any heads together (only his own against a brick wall it would seem) Garde up until the weekend has largely improved the side, whilst admitting in public difficulties with the club captain, you only have to read between the lines and see certain people just aren't pulling their weight on and off the pitch without there being anything exaggerated. It's there for all to see when they step over the white line to play. We had the incident a few weeks back with Guzan and Lescott, playing a game of 'spit the gum' whilst sat on the bench. These are just things we know of and see. Add that to all the stats where we're second best (or bottom of the table) and you get a clearer picture that this lot just aren't working hard enough. I think 3/4 players are really influential over the rest, Garde knows this and given we're trying to avoid relegation has tried to get the best out of the players at his disposal. He SHOULDN'T have to motivate any of these players. Their own pride should be enough to motivate themselves (that and big fat salaries) the fact they can't or he can't get them to respond (or Sherwood before) is damning.

I agree that our players should be able to motivate themselves by pride and bust a gut for the cause but to play devil's advocate for a moment if Garde has such a problem with Gabby why does he pick him? I get that he's our only fit senior striker but why doesn't he send a message to the senior players who aren't putting the effort in by picking a Jerrell Sellars or a Keinan Davies? I'm not sure they can be any worse than Gabby...

Sandie wrote:

GadgetMan wrote:I don't think Randy is capable of banging any heads together (only his own against a brick wall it would seem) Garde up until the weekend has largely improved the side, whilst admitting in public difficulties with the club captain, you only have to read between the lines and see certain people just aren't pulling their weight on and off the pitch without there being anything exaggerated. It's there for all to see when they step over the white line to play. We had the incident a few weeks back with Guzan and Lescott, playing a game of 'spit the gum' whilst sat on the bench. These are just things we know of and see. Add that to all the stats where we're second best (or bottom of the table) and you get a clearer picture that this lot just aren't working hard enough. I think 3/4 players are really influential over the rest, Garde knows this and given we're trying to avoid relegation has tried to get the best out of the players at his disposal. He SHOULDN'T have to motivate any of these players. Their own pride should be enough to motivate themselves (that and big fat salaries) the fact they can't or he can't get them to respond (or Sherwood before) is damning.

I agree that our players should be able to motivate themselves by pride and bust a gut for the cause but to play devil's advocate for a moment if Garde has such a problem with Gabby why does he pick him? I get that he's our only fit senior striker but why doesn't he send a message to the senior players who aren't putting the effort in by picking a Jerrell Sellars or a Keinan Davies? I'm not sure they can be any worse than Gabby...

The ONLY reason I can think with regards to the younger lads is he doesn't want to ruin them, their confidence or their development? I can't offer any other reason. He's on record as saying, he will take good care of our youth. I guess that still leaves Sinclair? Needs must. I'll be interested to see the side moving forward from the last game for a couple of reasons. One RG said, he will find 11 men that are prepared to fight and two I suspect he's possibly resigned to going down now afte the thumping against Liverpool, where as I think he thought we might still be capable of pulling it off prior to this. If he has given up, I'd like to think he'd bomb the likes of Gabby and Lescott straight out. We will see. No games this weekend though...