Re: Aston Villa V Liverpool: 14th February at 14:05

by GadgetMan Tue Feb 16, 2016 4:07 pm

villabromsgrove wrote:You're right football is different to most jobs, but contractual obligations are similar. Breaches of discipline, unacceptable behaviour, refusal to carry out reasonable requests, should be dealt with by verbal warnings, verbal (recorded) warnings, written warnings, final written warnings, and then dismissal. Serious breaches of discipline allow the first three or even four stages of procedure to be bypassed. I get the feeling that no one at the club is solely in charge of internal discipline, which allows the players to get away with murder.

Sure, I agree with all that. Problem might just be in proving someone isn't trying hard enough. It's never black and white and the margins are so small at this level. I don't think we're talking large scale anarchy at BMH, more a "I can't be arsed" mentality, which is infinitely more difficult to record and discipline. We'll never know unless someone speaks out, but I'm inclined to believe rumours of some not giving a sh*t after what I witnessed on Sunday.

by **villabromsgrove** Tue Feb 16, 2016 4:15 pm

Watching Gabby sitting on the pitch several times on Sunday before traipsing off, either actually feeling ill because he can't be bothered to do the conditioning work, or just plain knackered because he's overweight, was a new low for me. Our hopes and dreams were disappearing down the toilet, and this overpaid has been, was feeling sorry for himself. Where's the passion, where's the spirit?

I agree with you Sandie, if the senior pros aren't bothered then kick their arses out of the team and play the kids.

by **Sandie** Tue Feb 16, 2016 4:34 pm

GadgetMan wrote:The ONLY reason I can think with regards to the younger lads is he doesn't want to ruin them, their confidence or their development? I can't offer any other reason. He's on record as saying, he will take good care of our youth. I guess that still leaves Sinclair? Needs must. I'll be interested to see the side moving forward from the last game for a couple of reasons. One RG said, he will find 11 men that are prepared to fight and two I suspect he's possibly resigned to going down now afte the thumping against Liverpool, where as I think he thought we might still be capable of pulling it off prior to this. If he has given up, I'd like to think he'd bomb the likes of Gabby and Lescott straight out. We will see. No games this weekend though...

I saw that '11 men prepared to fight' line and it got me thinking that we might see some youth players being brought in. I think that Sunday may have been the tipping point for Garde regarding some of our senior players. Pocketgate was not Lescott's first indiscretion if we all remember Gumgate (mentioned up thread) and may prove a last straw. If we think back to Gumgate, Guzan has barely been seen or heard of since and Lescott no doubt only survived it as he had shown some decent recent form.

by **Sandie** Tue Feb 16, 2016 4:43 pm

GadgetMan wrote:Sure, I agree with all that. Problem might just be in proving someone isn't trying hard enough. It's never black and white and the margins are so small at this level. I don't think we're talking large scale anarchy at BMH, more a "I can't be arsed" mentality, which is infinitely more difficult to record and discipline. We'll never know unless someone speaks out, but I'm inclined to believe rumours of some not giving a sh*t after what I witnessed on Sunday.

I think part of it is the type of characters some of these players are. Lescott and Richards have always been the class clowns. This is acceptable at a club like Manchester City where there are other senior players who chuckle at them then get on with the tasks at hand. At our club, Lescott and Richards probably are our senior players and there are probably a couple of others like Gabby and Grealish join in their gang. That's probably a recipe for everything being treated like a big joke and seeing the kind of things we have seen. We don't have a strong senior player who can tap them on the shoulder and tell them that the joke is over.

Thinking back to our recent captains, I do think Ron Vlaar was that kind of guy (shame he was made of glass and an inconsistent player) and even Petrov, Laursen and Gareth Barry were the kind of strong pros who lead everyone by example.

by Chris Harte Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:29 pm

I think I'm still in shock at how poor we were. And that we gave up at three.

by **villabromsgrove** Wed Feb 17, 2016 2:12 pm

Chris Harte wrote:I think I'm still in shock at how poor we were. And that we gave up at three.

Watching Toure's goal astounded me. Our defence were like a bunch of statues motionless and set in concrete. We totally capitulated.

by **Sandie** Fri Feb 19, 2016 12:10 am

A well written piece on the game

The Cleveland Browns should be thankful they don’t play in the English Premier League.

If they did they would be relegated—dropped, demoted, sent down because of their league-worst 3-13 record to a hypothetical NFL second division.

They would be, in short, Aston Villa.

Aston Villa is the worst team in the English Premier League this year. Going into last weekend’s game against Liverpool, Villa had won three of twenty-five games and were sitting at the bottom of the table. Barring a late-season miracle—like last year’s improbable escape by this year’s improbable league-leader Leicester City when they won six of their last eight matches—Aston Villa, along with two other bottom teams in the EPL, will suffer “the drop.”

It’s an ignominy made worse given Villa’s proud history: founding members of the Football League in 1888, founding members of the Premier League in 1992, winners of the European Cup in 1982, seven-time league winners, seven-time FA Cup winners. Villa is one of England’s legendary clubs. During the reign of Queen Victoria, Villa was huge.

But Queen Victoria is dead, and the fans filing into Villa Park last Sunday seemed resigned to the fact that their team’s chances of staying up were dead, too.

The game started in sunshine. But as shadows slipped across the pitch, so did Villa. Liverpool scored, then scored again. Liverpool ran rampant; the Villans seemed stuck in place. The only thing crisp about Villa were their striped claret and blue socks.

Relegation will have consequences. Foremost is the lost $100 million in broadcasting revenue ($140 million went to last year’s league champion, Chelsea), which accompanies the drop to the Championship (the EPL gives relegated teams “parachute payments” to lessen the financial blow, though that phrase can’t hide that someone is being pushed from a great height).

Relegation will be ugly. Not just lost revenue but lost relevance—lost players, lost fans, lost prestige. Arsenal was last relegated in 1913. Manchester United was relegated in 1974 but came back the year after. More often teams never recover, tumbling to lower leagues and struggling to return to the top flight. Remember Leeds? Fulham?

As the second half began, Liverpool scored a third time. Then a fourth, a fifth, a sixth. Kolo Touré, who had never scored for Liverpool, scored for Liverpool. The team scored four goals in thirteen minutes. Some teams don’t score four goals in a month. It was a scoring frenzy, a bloodbath. The traveling Liverpool fans were giddy and drunk, and would not stop singing. What started as a football match became a concert for singing Liverpool fans. The only drama was whether the Liverpool players might hurt themselves by pulling a hamstring in their celebratory scrums.

Villa fans streamed out of the park, shouting obscenities. One fan threw his hat on the field, then asked for it back.

Maybe he’ll want it next year. There’s always hope.

Because the other side of relegation is promotion. All over England this spring, the best teams in the lower divisions—like Hull and Brighton and Sheffield Wednesday —will be dreaming big. The top two teams in the Championship win promotion to the Premier League; the next four battle in a playoff for the third spot. These games may be the most exhilarating games in sport. Euphoric games, with players and fans bonded together by the dream of making it to Old Trafford next year. Where a single goal on a muddy field in Yorkshire could be worth $100 million. Imagine that!

Imagine, too, the wild possibilities that relegation and promotion could bring to sports in America. The Denver Broncos playing the Iowa Barnstormers. The Golden State Warriors visiting the Kalamazoo Pure. The El Paso Chihuahuas playing in Yankee Stadium.

Americans could learn something here. Not only the rough capitalism of relegation, but the irrational exuberance of promotion (many of the teams that are promoted go right back down the following year). Because in both they would experience something vital—real joy, real tears—the knowledge that rooting for ones team matters.

There is one American learning this lesson right now: Randy Lerner. Lerner is the American majority-owner of Aston Villa. He also used to be the owner of the Cleveland Browns.

That's in a paper that Lerner, and his stateside associates, almost certainly read. Perhaps when he sees his inverse Midas touch when it comes to leading sporting institutions being openly mocked he will finally begin to understand the gravity of the situation.

by Chris Harte Fri Feb 19, 2016 8:32 am

I thought that was a good article.

by **villabromsgrove** Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:10 pm

Thanks for sharing that Sandie. It's good to get a different view on the issue of relegation from a country that doesn't have to confront such a possibility. Aston Villa V Liverpool: 14th February at 14:05 - Page 5 4288271622

Aston Villa V Liverpool: 14th February at 14:05 - Page 5 4288271622

by **villabromsgrove** Sat Feb 20, 2016 6:13 pm

Will this be the worst result of our season, or is there more to come?

by **Sandie** Sat Feb 20, 2016 7:20 pm

Good question. Liverpool are nothing like as good as we made them look and there are plenty of better teams than them in the division. We've got Man City away on the 5th of March and you've got to think if we put in the same kind of limp surrender we did last weekend we'll be on the end of another hiding. The next weekend, we have what looks like an excellent Tottenham team and then a few weeks later a resurgent Chelsea at home. We also have to play Arsenal in the last game of the season. Any of these games can end in an embarrassing score line if our players don't buck up their ideas.

That said, after our last low point, at Wycombe everyone reacted to that and we had a few decent weeks so we maybe we will react and be more professional in the remainder of the season.

by **villabromsgrove** Sun Feb 21, 2016 4:25 pm

If some of the players are being awkward, then Remi has to play inexperienced players who will follow his team orders. As you say, we could get battered with some of the teams we have to play being very capable of preying on weakness.

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What will happen against Liverpool?